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MIDI export ommiting random chord notes?

Take these chords, for example:

(the forum won’t let me embed images because I’m a “new user”) i.imgur.com/MlGeiAJ.png

When I export the MIDI and import them into any DAW or midi editing program, some of the chords seem to be missing notes, following a pattern that I can’t figure out. Check it out:

The I chord at the start is alright, then on the fifth bar it appears again, but without the bass note. The same thing happens with the iv right before the iv7 at the end, it’s missing a note. It happens to me all the time. Is this a bug, or am I overlooking something?

EDIT: Oh, and also when you export say, an 8 bar progression, the resulting exported MIDI region (not the notes themselves) is always slightly longer than 8 bars.

This has been reported:

Some DAWs do attempt to render the second note with one tick.

Well I didn’t expect to find you here! I’m an avid follower of your old school tracker tunes & versions, HertzDevil.

Thanks for the quick reply. Hopefully it will be fixed soon, it’s pretty annoying when exporting large arrangements.

Finale Notepad automatically fixes those zero-length MIDI notes and can be used to export correct MIDI files.

Thanks a lot, man. You’re the best.

Hi all,

Sorry for the late entry into this thread. @CDEFGAB, I’m trying to recreate the problem you’re having. Would you mind posting a link to your project so that we’re sure we’re identifying the problem properly? Part of the issue on our end may be that the bug @HertzDevil is talking about is resolved by some DAWs. I’m using Logic Pro here:

Sure @Ryan, this project right here, with that same progression, reproduces the bug: http://www.hooktheory.com/hookpad/project/137092

It’s a brand new created project, I’ve just input the chords by hand and on export, same thing happens, exactly as described by @HertzDevil, on Bitwig Studio 1.0.13 (I can also reproduce this on Ableton Live and some others):

[Still can’t post images] http://i.imgur.com/FYIwut8.png

You can also see that the resulting export is a bit longer than the actual 4 bars it should be; this happens on every export, it’s a bit annoying if you like to loop things.

What I cannot figure out is exactly in what situation is the bug triggered, because I’ve done a ton of exports on which adjacent chords containing the same notes are exported correctly.

I would also like to add that midi exporting 7 chords with 4 notes (or any variation of a chord that ends up being made up of 4 notes) always results in a MIDI chord with just the 3 original notes, which can be quite confusing in most situations. And if you’re exporting a jazzy progression with lots of 7s and add9s and whatnot it makes MIDI export a real pain in the ass.

Hi everyone, sorry for the delay on this topic. We’re completely redoing the way that Hookpad voices chords and creates performances to be more robust and to support some exciting new features. This new framework will iron out a lot of issues including this MIDI export bug. We hope to roll out these updates in the next few weeks. Thanks so much for your patience.

I don’t know what to expect in the next version this time, although I hope that it won’t remove any existing feature (e.g. when inverted sus4 chords were removed after the introduction of sus2), and that the update extends to the site interface itself, not just Hookpad features.

It has been five weeks since this announcement, how is the next release of Hookpad going?

@HertzDevil, Sorry for the late response. We’re finalizing a few last things and should be ready to launch in a day or two. Thanks for your patience!

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Thank you for releasing this update. Other than the mixer and the save/load screen, what are the other new features?

The voicing fix is great, on the other hand the Trends page still displays incorrect symbols for chords like C17.

We’ll release a formal post shortly detailing the changes in this release. Now that we’ve worked out the new voicing/MIDI framework, we’ll have more time to spend on working through some of the other issues on our list (like the Trends display errors… I know it’s been a while)

The random “ghost” notes bug in the chords’ midi exports is still there, by the way.

@CDEFGAB,

By “ghost” notes, are you referring to your post here?

I would also like to add that midi exporting 7 chords with 4 notes (or any variation of a chord that ends up being made up of 4 notes) always results in a MIDI chord with just the 3 original notes, which can be quite confusing in most situations. And if you’re exporting a jazzy progression with lots of 7s and add9s and whatnot it makes MIDI export a real pain in the ass.

I’m not sure I properly understand your question. Hookpad uses a 3-note voicing for 7th chords and add9s in the RH (harmony), relying on the bass to complete the chord. Do you mean that additional notes are still being dropped in the MIDI export?

No, I mean the issue that @HertzDevil explained technically here:

It’s just exactly that: when two chords contain similar notes, sometimes that note disappears on one of the chords when the MIDI is imported into a MIDI-capable program. For example, two adjacent chords both containing a C note, and one of them will randomly have a missing C. Sometimes it happens, sometimes it doesn’t.

Export any project containing like 4 or 6 chords that share a common note with the next chord and you’ll run into the bug for sure, it happens really frequently.

I haven’t run into this bug with melodies but I can’t be 100% it’s exclusive to chords.

Ok, sorry about this. I had thought we fixed this with the latest rework of the voicing algorithms, but I’ll have to take another look it seems.

Thanks for your patience

This STILL isn’t fixed. I first reported this very simple and very annoying bug on October. @HertzDevil did so even earlier. He even described the technical issue itself in depth. NINE months later, it’s still there. This is really disappointing.

@CDEFGAB,

Very sorry this is still happening. The specific error that @HertzDevil described should have been patched in update 1.2.0, which means this might be something else going on. The example from your original post:

http://www.hooktheory.com/hookpad/project/137092

does not appear to be having any errors on our end. See below for chord progression, and MIDI import into Finale 2012, Logic Pro X (10.1.1), and Abelton Live (9.2) :

We’ve also verified that the MIDI messages don’t have any overlap. Hookpad writes the MIDI files from scratch so we have fairly good control over the timing of the MIDI on/off events.

Can you confirm that this project is still causing errors for you in Ableton Live?