I’ve exported a project to a single WAV track and then to 4 Steems WAV tracks and they don’t sound the same, I seemed to hear quite a difference, while investigating, I’ve noticed by chance that, for example, some or all of the cymbals sound panned the opposite way depending on whether you listen to the full track or the Steems and the drum rolls also go back and forth in the opposite direction. It’s like all the pans on the drum track sound backwards.
The correct panning is of the entire track.
This makes me think that in the other three tracks there could also be differences that are difficult to notice but that change the sound.
I’ve never noticed before.
Could I have done something wrong, or is this how it should be?
That’s weird! I just tested it again and couldn’t replicate this behavior. If you could tell me the name of the song you are experiencing this, I can have a look and check it out.
However, there are a few things which might change between bounces:
- Compression: Bouncing to stems is bypassing the compressor as a compressor which is set up to the whole mix can’t respond accurately to the individual busses. So if you have the compressor enabled in your project, this could be one of the reasons it sounds different.
- Random samples: All of our newer acoustic drums use two different samples for each instrument which are selected randomly. So when bouncing again, different samples might be used at some places.This is barely noticeable for most of the drums, but the crash cymbal is triggering either the one the right side or the one on the left side. So this might be a reason why you feel the pan is changing. But this shouldn’t affect any toms, so there might still be something buggy after all.
Regards!
Dennis
Okay.
I forgot to mention that this is a Hookpad project and therefore I don’t know if you can access it by mentioning the name of the song, anyway the name is Spanish 3 (Yesterday at 6:15 PM).
I have exported the full track and steems again and indeed, as you say, the contrary panning of the cymbals has not occurred in the same passages, so your explanation that this can occur randomly has been confirmed. But this, without being a serious bug, I suppose it is due to a technical difficulty that is difficult to solve.
As for the direction of the percussion rolls, it is true that it could have been an auditory illusion caused by the panning of the cymbals since today it was very difficult for me to identify it.
As for the complete track not sounding the same as the Steems, the compressor is not activated and I have adjusted the volume of some steems and it has improved, but I still perceive differences in the sound, the complete track sounds more compact and even more defined.
All this without any effect on the master track or any other.
So I consider the matter settled, understanding that one day the cymbal pans and the sound of the steems will improve, if it is not just a perception of mine.
Thank you very much for answering my question.
Ok, I just had a look at your song and I think there are two different but related things going on:
- Your layering of the instruments is producing phase issues. I noticed that at some parts you’re stacking the exact same patch two or three times. Each instrument in Hookpad has a random sample start assigned, so each time a note is played it might start a few milliseconds early or late. You won’t hear any rhythmic issues but it helps the instruments to sound a bit more realistic.
That said, if you stack two exact patches they are randomly sometimes in phase and some times the two instruments cancel out each other partly. The best way to hear this in your song is to loop bar 35 and solo Basic Pop 1 and Rock 1 Default drums. Now if you listen to the snare you’ll hear that every now and then the snare sounds very weird, with no low end. As this occurs randomly, the stems and the wav bounce will sound different at some places.
I also noticed you had the volume of many of those instruments cranked up to 100 so I assume you’re layering those instruments to make the instrument louder. I wouldn’t do this. If you pulled up the fader to 100 and an instrument still isn’t loud enough in the mix, try pulling down the volume of all other instruments instead to avoid those phase issues.
If you want your sound more fat, I would detune each drum instrument slightly and use different octaves for the harmony instruments where possible. - There is a limiter at the end of Hookpad’s audio chain to prevent clipping when bouncing. Usually you won’t notice it as without the compressor being enabled your signal is almost never loud enough for the limiter to respond. But in your case with all the stacked instruments stacked up 100, you beat the system and the limiter is responding which makes the complete track sound more compact than the different stems.
Thank you.
I understand everything you have written about phase cancellation and I have listened to the loop you have suggested identifying them.
As for the volumes, I will have to consider a work method anticipating the attenuation of all the volumes of all the instruments from the beginning, because you never know where or when I will load an instrument and it will need more volume and when you are already a good part of the project, lowering all the volumes of what you have already loaded is a real nuisance and hard work.
I did not know that Hookpad applied a limiter at the end, that would explain why more than once when mastering I have had some problems, almost always with oversaturated percussions, so when exporting I always do it without a compressor.
A suggestion, unless I am the only one with problems of lack of volume in some instruments, it would not be amiss to have a knob that lowers the volume level of the instruments of the entire project at once and then raises only the necessary ones one by one. You will have noticed that I do not follow the established canons for composing since I am and will continue to be a beginner without any musical instruction and I almost always work based on trial and error and today I have learned something more.
Thank you for your time.
Yes, that’s a great idea. Perhaps we could create a button which lowers the volume of all instruments in every band by 10%. That’s something to think about.